An Interview with Spain’s China Expert Augusto Soto

A: I am a Consultant and Professor at ESADE and Academic Contributor of ESADEgeo-Center for Global Economy and Geopolitics. http://www.esadegeo.com/team 

President of ESADEgeo-Center for Global Economy and Geopolitics is Professor Javier Solana. As you know, he is Former European Union High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy and Former Secretary General of NATO. His leadership is highly inspiring.

I am also Global Expert of the Global Experts of the United Nations Alliance of Civilizations: http://www.theglobalexperts.org/?s=Soto&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0

Thanks to my experience in trying to learn more about China and Chinese Western relations over the last 25 years, I am now leading the Dialogue with China Project based in Barcelona: www.dialoguewithchina.eu Its purpose is to contribute to the process of mutual understanding between the EU and China. It has a glocal perspective, encompassing both global and local. By local we mean a Barcelona, Spanish and European perspective. By global we mean the global synergies generated by the EU.

Q: What is the current economic situation in Spain now?

A: The economic situation appears to be the worst in more than four decades. The facts are known. The economy is not really growing, the jobless rate is extremely high and for the time being at least, Spain is no longer among the eight main world economic powers. The country is to a certain extent experiencing a brain drain which is an immediate opportunity for emerging or re-emerging countries and an opportunity for Spain only in the long run. Spain is still a wealthy society but its per capita income has gone back to the levels of the beginnings of the last decade.

At the same time there is a growing consensus among Spanish strategists and policy-makers on the need for more internationalization. This fresh “going abroad” view is seen as a necessary pillar for the future of the Spanish economy. Due to the European character of the crisis a natural priority for the country now is reinforcing political and economic ties with other European powers, particularly with Germany.

Another clear and natural option for Spain is reinforcing economic and political ties with Latin America. It is important to stress that most Spanish multinationals reached its international status in that continent over the last two decades.

Q: Regarding the debt crisis in Europe, there are many different views. What is yours?

A: My view is that the crisis is a multidimensional one. If we look back, the most dangerous aspect of the debt crisis is a relative breaking of confidence among some EU partners. Broadly speaking, over the last two years we have seen somehow a relative
gap of understanding between Northern and Southern Europe as well as between
the West and the former Eastern bloc. Then we have Britain, whose participation in the EU follows its own peculiar path.

Secondly, until recently we saw a lack of clarity to envisage the way out of the debt crisis. It seems that tools for planning in times of the Cold War are not valid tools in times of globalization in which market operations are made at light speed in seconds and even in less than one second.

On the other side, the present crisis is a systemic one within the capitalist system but not the end of capitalism.

Q: Some pessimistic persons would say that the Euro will collapse soon.  Is it true?

A: On the future of the euro there is no consensus. There is not scientific approach to answer to this question neither by EU prime ministers, presidents, euro-bureaucrats or winners of Nobel prizes.

At the same time it seems pure science fiction to think of the collapse of the euro. This currency still seems an excellent idea for the purpose of political and economic unity of a diversified continent facing the challenges of globalization. The euro is still an excellent idea which unfortunately has been poorly managed.

Personally I am not pessimistic. In the not so distant past Europe witnessed several crises including internal wars. Historically Europe was a unique continent of crises, challenges and response. Also, we are not in times like in the fifties, recovering from the Second World War or the Spanish Civil War. Europe as a block is still the most powerful economic and trading powerhouse in the world.

Also, EU’s reaction capacity cannot be neglected. So, in spite of the above mentioned problems, the EU treaty on budget policy agreed on at the end of January it is an outstanding fact. The fact that twenty-five out of the 27 European Union member states have agreed on a new fiscal treaty imposing concerted discipline, in my opinion, is an excellent new beginning sending an unusual positive sign to the outside world.

Q: Now, turning to China-European relations, what are the major obstacles hindering the bilateral ties?

A: Since the establishment of bilateral relations we have seen an increasing mutual understanding which is a model for the rest of the world.

I would say that in this process the major obstacle to harmonious relations is not to recognize some differences on certain issues. These issues are known. Some are issues of principle and some are mostly technicalities. The important thing here is that the relation is so mature that there are different channels to overcome obstacles or misunderstandings.

Personally, I do not see any obstacle based on radically different mentalities when approaching issues of common concern. On the other side, it is true that from time to time there is potential for misunderstandings, sometimes, due to the nature of our political systems which are different. But we sometimes find differences within the EU too. So, differences can also enrich ties.

Q:  Based on your own observation, what do the Spanish people view China?  As you are a China expert, would you say that people in Spain have a good, correct and objective understanding of China?

A:  Spanish people have a very positive image of China. It should also be stressed that thanks to the modernization of China its society is changing more rapidly than any other society in the world. Spanish people need permanently to keep an updated view on China. At the official level, in modern times bilateral relations were established in 1973 and in 2005 they reached the level of “strategic partnership”. It is no wonder that top Chinese leaders have praised Spain as “the best friend of China in the European Union”.

Personally I feel delighted for the increasing degree of interest about China in this country. Over the last years I have accompanied Chinese delegations and friends visiting Madrid and Barcelona. What struck me most in most occasions is the degree of good will and curiosity expressed by Spanish people from all walks of life. Some even try to speak some Chinese to the guests and show surprising knowledge about China’s culture and customs that just a decade ago would have been unthinkable curiosity for an average Spanish citizen.

There is also an increasing academic community devoted to Chinese studies and to the study of the Chinese language and culture. Spain has now six Confucius Institutes. Of course, each quarter of our big or small cities has many Chinese restaurants. At the same time you can also see emerging businesses in different sectors bolstered by the initiative and hard work of Chinese immigrants widely admired.

Q:   How should we improve the understanding of the Europeans about China?

A:  As in the case of Spain, Europeans need more channels for a better understanding of China. Luckily there are some tools and frames at hand.

The EU-China Year of Intercultural Dialogue starting on February of this year, taking place in the 27 countries of the European Union, is a window of opportunity.

This fresh EU-China initiative suggests the following reflections. It is more than clear that since youth represent the future, we should try to engage more students. First of all, we should significantly provide constant support to those young European and Chinese scholars who have spent years trying to understand Chinese and European realities and bilateral relations.

Secondly, I feel that we need to promote interest on the significance of our relations among EU and Chinese outstanding students who so far, because of their study fields, show interest but know little about China and Europe. They are tomorrow’s leaders, so it is of strategic importance to inform them and actively engage them.

Thirdly, by the same token we should try to engage senior EU and Chinese middle level ranking politicians, economists, academics, artists who are not directly connected by profession or dedication to the improvement of EU-China ties, but who are influential locally and globally. This latter group is the most important target group.

Of course, carrying on constant dialogues and fora on international relations, economics, strategy and geostrategic issues should be kept high on the agenda for mutual understanding.

It goes without saying that dialogues go beyond a specific year of the calendar since it is a permanent task.

Q:   As a scholar on international studies, what suggestions would you like to give to the young scholars in China regarding the question how to conduct international studies?

A:  First of all, keep in mind as a principle a quite famous and familiar sentence to both Chinese and global citizens since 1978: “Practice is the sole criterion of truth”. This means knowing what it means to your country.

Secondly, you need to know how this translates into other countries according to local conditions.

Thus, thirdly, since China has become a power of global reach, no matter what is your specialty within the field of international studies, you must constantly visit more different countries than previous generations of scholars did. Study and travel in countries of the Northern and Southern Hemisphere. Each continent teaches you something, by doing so you could see first-hand aspects of reality not included in the main texts of your own field.

Fourth, read the Chinese and European classics again and again. If you want to enrich your understanding of the Western world, do not neglect ancient Roman and Greek classics. By reading them you will somehow realize that several events that are taking place in the international scenario have somehow “happened” in the past and been masterly interpreted by those ancient giants. This will help your capacity of judgment.

Fifth, due to the crisis and common global challenges it is a must to reinforce the understanding of political sciences, international relations and economics. And also keep an eye on new vehicles of communication made possible by the information revolution. Keep yourself updated!

And last but not least. If you feel that after years of studying within your field there is a contribution you can make to society, do not hesitate and try to make an impact on your own society by contributing to international encounters, conversations, dialogues, good will, etc. We face and will face very deep challenges that deserve to be tackled together.

            (This interveiw is conducted through email on February 3, 2012.)